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    Sand Q

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    zeketaz

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    Sand Q

    Post by zeketaz on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:23 pm

    The person that just got the cichlids was told the sand in the tank is around 8 years old. Should they change it or is it fine?

    mike205

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by mike205 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:28 pm

    it should be fine
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    PAguy

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by PAguy on Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:09 am

    I agree it should be fine but they could allways rinse it to ease the mind.
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    Fern
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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by Fern on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:54 am

    how deep is the sand bed? If its under 1.5" its fine.
    If its any deeper theres probably layers for aerobic, Facultative, and anaerobic bacterias respectively. its that anaerobic bacteria that you really never want to stir up into the water column. Facultative bacteria is pretty awesome, it eats up quite a bit that the aerobic bacteria misses.
    And theres my waste-water background showing again.... alien

    Now if the cichlids kept it stirred up then its all good...


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    williemcd

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by williemcd on Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:17 pm

    I'm going to cheat here and cut/paste from my post on my local group regarding sand and our debate over PFS over PGS (pool versus play)

    Matt, I hate to harp on this but less than two hours ago Nick and I had an exchange that's now appropiate I think.

    Playground sand.

    So.. lets take it back to where PLS is generated!.. Is there one company out there mining PLS?... Nope.... it's a by-product of a manufacturing process.
    I'm not an expert but here is a game-plan that I suspect that's in place.
    1. Ya go to a quarry, buy 100 tons of rock..
    2. Ya take it back to your processing facility.
    3. Ya start crushing it, sieving it to develop the various products ya want. (crushed stone for flower beds, bigger stones for roadway enhancements, down to pebble sized for plant scaping/aquascaping.. etc..)
    4. Ya end up with the dregs of the manufacturing process... PLAY GROUND SAND!

    PFS? A filter supplier goes to the above processor and submits a requirement that they need a sand that is capable of allowing water to pass thru the grains of sand and that the sand not compact!.. The PFS sand I use is sieved to a consistent size of .45 - .55 mm. What you're using is the dregs of the manufacturing process...

    I've experience in that industry.

    Bill

    joefish72

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by joefish72 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:01 pm

    Willie
    That is very confusing:
    First mention PFS (Pool filter sand?)and PGS (Play ground sand?)
    Then changed to PLS (what is PLS?)
    Then "Ya end up with the dregs of the manufacturing process... PLAY GROUND SAND!"


    All I can say is I use Playground sand and so far the fish haven't complained. Razz

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    williemcd

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by williemcd on Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:21 pm

    Joe.. yea.. I did throw a curve ball in there.. Play Land Sand is a brand.. I substituted Play Ground.. OOps...
    I was just pointing out the differences in the two. What ever works for you is perfect!.. Some PGS is of a higher quality depending upon the processor although there aren't any "specifications" mandated by the retail outlet on the quality. One of my closest friends was also using PFS and was amazed at the difference in the quality of the brand I was using compared to the brand he used. Admittedly, I stumbled upon the brand that now 100% of our club uses if they chose to go with PFS. (Brand name: Lighthouse). My last 155g I set up I didn't even bother rinsing before use!.. AND, at $10.00 for 50 lb. not a major investment versus the 4.00 - 6.00 for PGS.
    I'm currently running about 600 g with PFS of that brand but am also engaged in an experiment with yet another product. This one is proving pretty interesting. It's using a product called Safe-T-Sorb from Tractor Supply. I've had it in a 155G Discus tank for over 6 months. The plants LOVE the substrate. It's a clay based product that is primarily used for "garage-spill" absorption. (commercial garages and oil/gas spills). This product is even cheaper at $4.00 for 50 lbs. (2 pics of that in use attached)..


    So in summary, I feel using a product that has manufacturing mandates put upon it to provide the capability to filter water (PFS) versus a product that has NO mandate upon it, I feel the added expense of 4-6.00 to support the substrate of a 6 foot tank is worth the added expense.

    BTW. I spent 3 years consulting with 2 processors of this and a like material. The manufacturing process is something I learned during my consulting period with them. Bill in Va.
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    Fern
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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by Fern on Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:49 pm

    When I did freshwater I always used pool filter sand just for the good standard grain size, Play sand was too fine for my liking....


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    joefish72

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by joefish72 on Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:19 pm

    Thanks for that clarification.

    I never thought there could be a difference in sand, I thought "sand is sand" so the info is very helpfull. In my tanks I went with sand on top of soil and I do notice there are air bubles that get trapped under the sand. I liked the idea of the sand being compacted so the waste sits on the sand and is easily sucked out.

    Now you have me going into experiment mode too. I'll have to try the pool filter sand and see which I like better. Once I get it set up I'll be sure to compare notes with you.

    I also hear people use some kind of blasting media when they want black sand. I think they sell it at either Northern Tool or Harbor Freight. When I set up a few more tanks I might give that a try as well.
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    Fern
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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by Fern on Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:58 pm

    use crystal sands pool filter sand Joe, its what I used.
    Black beauty is the sand blasting stuff.... mixed reviews on that...

    The bubbles are likely the organics in the dirt breaking down putting off gasses, never seemed to do any harm.


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    Sarge

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by Sarge on Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:17 pm

    This is an interesting topic...I have used PGS and we couldn't wait to get rid of it. Now we also had an algea problem in that tank, that no matter what we couldn't fix. Anyways, ya Joe I have heard and seen pictures of people using blasting matterial for substrate. I talked to some people on a different forum that said there was many different colors and shades. Could be something to bring about with some of our members. I actually have a tank that I'm about to redo. Maybe we can explore that as an option...hmmm
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    Fern
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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by Fern on Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:08 pm

    Just be careful of heavy metals.....


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    Sarge

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by Sarge on Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:52 pm

    Ya the stuff I want to use is silica based from Tractor Supply. You can get 50# for $7

    joefish72

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by joefish72 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:41 pm

    I think the silica based stuff causes problems with hair algae but I'm not 100% reefkeeper would know better.
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    Fern
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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by Fern on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:14 pm

    crystal sands pool filter sand at home depot is $6 for 50lbs, larger grain size than most so no dust storms!

    No it does not cause hair algae issues, improper balance does that.


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    zeketaz

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by zeketaz on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:15 pm

    He is running freshwater also so wouldn't affect it the way it would salt. Or am I wrong?
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    Fern
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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by Fern on Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:19 pm

    You are correct.


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    Sarge

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by Sarge on Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:09 pm

    So im lost now...is silica something i should stay away from. Or because imrunning fw id be ok. Its not something i had my heart set on. To be honest i was thinking to try that dirt/sand base yall were talking about.
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    zeketaz

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by zeketaz on Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:23 pm

    The silica is fine for you. Can even use it with the dirt.
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    Fern
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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by Fern on Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:02 pm

    I do the cheapest top soil I can find topped with the crystal snads silica sand, grows plants like mad!

    (silica is bad in salt but fine in fresh)


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    reefkpr

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by reefkpr on Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:26 pm

    If you use silica based sand in a saltwater aquarium you will never get the hair algae to stop growing. Always avoid silica sand. Not sure in a freshwater setup but I bet it would feed the algae in there also.
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    Sarge

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by Sarge on Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:31 am

    OK, so say this silica does, feed algea. Is it algea that's bad for the tank. Will my fish not eat it?
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    Fern
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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by Fern on Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:19 pm

    some fish will, some wont......


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    zeketaz

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by zeketaz on Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:20 pm

    It don't effect FW the way it does SW. Algea comes from poor water conditions and lack of maintanence I think. I never delt with sand so I'm no expert but I do know it won't cause a prob.
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    Sarge

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    Re: Sand Q

    Post by Sarge on Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:30 pm

    Well that settles it. I will give it a shot and see what happens! if it gets to be out of hand, then I didn't waste a bunch of money, I got to try something different, and I can go back to something I know!

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